[News] May 2011 Election

[~Kabob~]

Sophia00 wrote:

lampert wrote: Sophia00 wrote: One thing i see wrong with Recruitment is that 1 week is so little time to find the nature of the Apprentices in the guild. I believe that the time should be Extended by a week and a half, Making it 2.5 weeks. Therefore, giving us enough time to see how the Apprentice is in terms of socializing and stuff like that. I can't really give examples for my side so, i hope you understand what i'm saying :x. Maybe we could try not having a time limit for apprentices, and make it so they are officially members when we feel they are ready to be. And to Allen's point, people haven't been very thorough when they test applicants. I think the actual testing process can be improved upon...also making sure that the applicant does more than just run a dungeon 10 times. I guess there should be no Time limit then. But then again, a Apprentice might stay like that for a long time. So maybe there should be a feedback system for the Apprentices, i.e. A Apprentice needs 6 positive feedbacks in order to become a real member, If that apprentice gets 3 or more Negative Feedback, that person doesn't Qualify to be a part of Visions. But the Testing process really needs to be revamped.

the problem is: some people just happen to know others...so they can get like 4 approvals just by knowing them.
like: "I approve, i used to run dungeons with________ a while ago, he knows what to do." or something.
i could say that and secretly imply like ciar o.o; (lame example, but youve seen it happen, you knwo what I mean)

[A.Walker]

To be completely honest, I think the "apprentice system" is not needed at all, so making it even more complex is not going to do a thing, except making it more annoying.

Just my opinion.

[Sophia00]

~Kabob~ wrote:

the problem is: some people just happen to know others...so they can get like 4 approvals just by knowing them. like: "I approve, i used to run dungeons with________ a while ago, he knows what to do." or something. i could say that and secretly imply like ciar o.o; (lame example, but youve seen it happen, you knwo what I mean)

Well If people already know the applier, There should be no big deal on giving around 3-5 sentences about that applier. I don't see why people only write about 1-2 sentences for the Approvals.

[~Kabob~]

Sophia00 wrote:

~Kabob~ wrote: the problem is: some people just happen to know others...so they can get like 4 approvals just by knowing them. like: "I approve, i used to run dungeons with________ a while ago, he knows what to do." or something. i could say that and secretly imply like ciar o.o; (lame example, but youve seen it happen, you knwo what I mean) Well If people already know the applier, There should be no big deal on giving around 3-5 sentences about that applier. I don't see why people only write about 1-2 sentences for the Approvals.

how much significantly will adding 2~3 more sentences to the app change anything? its like a paper: drag it out a little more.
I see what you mean, but I'm not feeling it. I can't think straight right now so ill get back to you with a counter.

[Mbun]

A.Walker wrote:

To be completely honest, I think the "apprentice system" is not needed at all, so making it even more complex is not going to do a thing, except making it more annoying. Just my opinion.

I sorta agree, and I sorta disagree there. I personally feel like we need the apprentice system, but we need it to work differently to weed out troublemakers and to speed along members who adjust faster to being in the guild.

For example, you shouldn't be able to lay low for a week to get in then immediately start causing conflicts everywhere. Our current system is letting this happen.

[iamheartless]

Mbun wrote:

A.Walker wrote: Mbun, Jehuty what are you going to do if you get into council? Please don't say vague obvious cookie cutter statements like "I'm going to do my best! Believe it!" Well if I get in council this time around I might not have the time to do anything grandose over the normal expectations, but I'll probably throw myself at some project anyways along the lines of making our recruitment process stricter or possibly even tring to establish a penalty system for troublemakers which seem to be a problem lately. ;3 The original thing I ran for that one election I wanted in has been solved without me, so I'd mostly be the candidate to clean out Visions closet of skeletons. I'd also make sure every new member gets an apprentice thread, which seems to have had the ball dropped on it lately. I don't have enough freetime for any of the other major things I'd implement currently, so honestly I'd rather give this election to someone who is eager right now to take the reins. Dattebayo!

oh you.

[-Sprite]

Ya good luck to all that are participating and....
If you are planning on making an even good luck cause it takes time and effort and persistence and... a lot of other stuff. Ya harder to put the plan into action compared to just thinking up of the idea.

[~Kabob~]

Mbun wrote:

A.Walker wrote: To be completely honest, I think the "apprentice system" is not needed at all, so making it even more complex is not going to do a thing, except making it more annoying. Just my opinion. I sorta agree, and I sorta disagree there. I personally feel like we need the apprentice system, but we need it to work differently to weed out troublemakers and to speed along members who adjust faster to being in the guild. For example, you shouldn't be able to lay low for a week to get in then immediately start causing conflicts everywhere. Our current system is letting this happen.

that's sorta what i was trying to say...
but you worded it better, and shorter T__T

[Emissary256]

Troublemakers? I actually don't see any remaining ones.

If any do appear, I don't think there should be an official "penalty system." I believe that informal sanctions should take care of the majority of cases though. The councils and Cyril should obviously still use topic locks, warnings, banning, etc as necessary. Informal sanctions and equal-ish power can serve as a system of checks and balances.

Also, we need more group related activities in any forms, including through guild events, fun activities (like Soyui's forum activities), and having people more willing to run dungeons together (this seems to be improving naturally recently).

Also, maybe we should open our minds to things that help pretty much everyone. Everyone in Bliss, Conglomerate, Dreams, and a bunch of other guilds all seem to have Wave Sweepers and Dexterity/Oblivion items, and my theory is that they all helped each other get these things. It seems that the majority of people in our guild and among my own friends are still thinking that soloing is the main way to get everything for one's own gear.

[iamheartless]

Emissary256 wrote:

Troublemakers? I actually don't see any remaining ones. If any do appear, I don't think there should be an official "penalty system." I believe that informal sanctions should take care of the majority of cases though. The councils and Cyril should obviously still use topic locks, warnings, banning, etc as necessary. Informal sanctions and equal-ish power can serve as a system of checks and balances. Also, we need more group related activities in any forms, including through guild events, fun activities (like Soyui's forum activities), and having people more willing to run dungeons together (this seems to be improving naturally recently). Also, maybe we should open our minds to things that help pretty much everyone. Everyone in Bliss, Conglomerate, Dreams, and a bunch of other guilds all seem to have Wave Sweepers and Dexterity/Oblivion items, and my theory is that they all helped each other get these things. It seems that the majority of people in our guild and among my own friends are still thinking that soloing is the main way to get everything for one's own gear.

lol, good point. I recently got my wooden needle while running alby advanced for 3 with lunarfire, and his chest dropped the item. Seriously, its been proven teamwork effectiveness is MULTIPLIED each time a new person joins in to help. I've actually been meaning to bring this up.

[A.Walker]

As long as we are bringing up things, can someone (preferably Cyril) update the visions history? Apparently, Litokawaisky is building up simple and Falmosta/Lampert are part of the 3 person council.

Scheduled Renes egg, Rafting, Ballooning, Peacas, Etc sounds good.

[Falmosta]

lampert wrote:

Sophia00 wrote: One thing i see wrong with Recruitment is that 1 week is so little time to find the nature of the Apprentices in the guild. I believe that the time should be Extended by a week and a half, Making it 2.5 weeks. Therefore, giving us enough time to see how the Apprentice is in terms of socializing and stuff like that. I can't really give examples for my side so, i hope you understand what i'm saying :x. Maybe we could try not having a time limit for apprentices, and make it so they are officially members when we feel they are ready to be.

The only problem about that is the fact that there are apprentices that may get neglected as in the past and they may never get their forum posting rights. Apprentices can't see certain guild actives due to them being in the GD such as when we planned for a castle. The only solution for this is having to Sections for GD one for full member discussions and one for apprentices and full members. That or allow them to have GD posting rights since their time would take more then a week and it's hard to keep in the know when you can't even read the know.

Or better yet adjust the organized shadow missions and dungeon runs section to suit guild actives as well.

[~Kabob~]

A.Walker wrote:

As long as we are bringing up things, can someone (preferably Cyril) update the visions history? Apparently, Litokawaisky is building up simple and Falmosta/Lampert are part of the 3 person council. Scheduled Renes egg, Rafting, Ballooning, Peacas, Etc sounds good.

since we are bringing this stuff up, are we still doing member of the month and stuff like that???
and I remember the idea about a 'league of guilds.' Did we ever go through with that? Shouldn't we try to expand outside the guild a little bit? I know it says guild friends in the bottom, but as far as I know, thats just for guild battles and just saying your friends...

arena battles with small awards, maybe golem wars, who can get the most fields bosses in a day. Little things like that. But lets try to reach out more to other guilds...I feel kinda like im in a reclusive circle that doesn't branch out much....may be just me.

I dont need all the runs to have fun. They are nice, but lets go for little things too!

[A.Walker]

So for those of you who get confused when you see a wall of text, here are all of the candidate's agendas

Lampert

lampert wrote:

Personally, I think I would be best as a council again (well i assume everyone would say they're the best). The elections have turn into a popularity contest, much to my dismay, but I think I have the most to bring the the theoretical table of whch our guild is founded upon. I think, specifically that I can improve the reqruitment process because it says we have gotten very lax and are letting anyone in...

lampert wrote:

Well, I think it would be a good idea to try and get more members involved in applications, so we don't just have to same people approving again and again. Also, when I was council before, I took a huge personal interest in applicants I things went very smoothly back then (the applicants would ask me and I would refer people to them to ask for tests). I also think guild unity needs to be worked on. I know its finals soon and people have been on edge, but i still think we need to work to get along better. We also havent had any guild events in a while so we need more of those.

lampert wrote:

A.Walker wrote: How are you going to generate member interest in applications? Not sure yet, I have a couple ideas I'd like to try out. Maybe a reward system....or maybe I can ask specific people again. That worked out pretty well in the past.

lampert wrote:

Maybe we could try not having a time limit for apprentices, and make it so they are officially members when we feel they are ready to be. And to Allen's point, people haven't been very thorough when they test applicants. I think the actual testing process can be improved upon...also making sure that the applicant does more than just run a dungeon 10 times.

Mbun

Mbun wrote:

Well if I get in council this time around I might not have the time to do anything grandose over the normal expectations, but I'll probably throw myself at some project anyways along the lines of making our recruitment process stricter or possibly even tring to establish a penalty system for troublemakers which seem to be a problem lately. ;3 The original thing I ran for that one election I wanted in has been solved without me, so I'd mostly be the candidate to clean out Visions closet of skeletons. I'd also make sure every new member gets an apprentice thread, which seems to have had the ball dropped on it lately. I don't have enough freetime for any of the other major things I'd implement currently, so honestly I'd rather give this election to someone who is eager right now to take the reins. Dattebayo!

Mbun wrote:

I personally feel like we need the apprentice system, but we need it to work differently to weed out troublemakers and to speed along members who adjust faster to being in the guild. For example, you shouldn't be able to lay low for a week to get in then immediately start causing conflicts everywhere. Our current system is letting this happen.

Sophia00

Sophia00 wrote:

Sorry for the late reply but, my ideas are kinda focused on how low we have active members and do a few changes to the Apprentice time system. I will also try to encourage people to think of interesting Events for the Guild. That's about it that i see that needs changes. In time i may think of more stuff.

Sophia00 wrote:

One thing i see wrong with Recruitment is that 1 week is so little time to find the nature of the Apprentices in the guild. I believe that the time should be Extended by a week and a half, Making it 2.5 weeks. Therefore, giving us enough time to see how the Apprentice is in terms of socializing and stuff like that. I can't really give examples for my side so, i hope you understand what i'm saying :x.

Sophia00 wrote:

I guess there should be no Time limit then. But then again, a Apprentice might stay like that for a long time. So maybe there should be a feedback system for the Apprentices, i.e. A Apprentice needs 6 positive feedbacks in order to become a real member, If that apprentice gets 3 or more Negative Feedback, that person doesn't Qualify to be a part of Visions. But the Testing process really needs to be revamped.

Sophia00 wrote:

Well If people already know the applier, There should be no big deal on giving around 3-5 sentences about that applier. I don't see why people only write about 1-2 sentences for the Approvals.

Emissary256

Emissary256 wrote:

Troublemakers? I actually don't see any remaining ones. If any do appear, I don't think there should be an official "penalty system." I believe that informal sanctions should take care of the majority of cases though. The councils and Cyril should obviously still use topic locks, warnings, banning, etc as necessary. Informal sanctions and equal-ish power can serve as a system of checks and balances. Also, we need more group related activities in any forms, including through guild events, fun activities (like Soyui's forum activities), and having people more willing to run dungeons together (this seems to be improving naturally recently). Also, maybe we should open our minds to things that help pretty much everyone. Everyone in Bliss, Conglomerate, Dreams, and a bunch of other guilds all seem to have Wave Sweepers and Dexterity/Oblivion items, and my theory is that they all helped each other get these things. It seems that the majority of people in our guild and among my own friends are still thinking that soloing is the main way to get everything for one's own gear.

Jehuty00

Jehuty00 wrote:

I didn't expect to be a candidate. Well for those that know me Ill be honor if you let me be a council member. This would be my first time If I were to be elected, so in reality I have no experience in this particular area. However I am in my forth year of University and have excellent grades, so I know how to deal with people. Keep in mind that I am still studying/working and there might be a few times when I wont respond as other council members might. This would lower my chances but its the reality and you need to make the right choice. For those that dont know me well, ask other guild members. I am the one that says "weak"a lot

Jehuty00 wrote:

If were to be elected I would need to enhance my knowledge on what of interest each member is searching for in this guild . Base on that Ill make a plan on how would it be possible, of course Ill use all the means possible. I would also need to work around with other council members so I would to attend to their needs and help them to their part as members. Aside from that they are events that are on hold to frequent patches that everyone like to benefit from so Ill be planning a resolution on that and Ill be developing a proposal for a way to help on many request that pile up on the left side of the forum. I compare this job like an School Life Anime, wheres throughout the year it holds many event and the members plan, schedule and execute base on what job each members does. Of course I cant do this without the help of others witch makes it more fun.

Jehuty00 wrote:

I have a great source, the forum. I know by what Ive seeing what other members like to do around but I dont know for sure. For example: Saya is almost always bored, If I were to be elected there's a role I play where I ask her something like: what would you do to improve the guild's team play in the shadow missions, of the top of my head, depending on her answer I know if shes interested or not and work myself though. There are many ways to know people interests but most likely those interest are almost entirely different from each other except playing mabinogi.

Jehuty00 wrote:

Recruitment is tricky. However I have an idea. Picture a job as surveillance in a access control community. When people come they do the usual check up, the would be the application form, and they make sure the are worthy to enter the premise. The idea is to designate a group of members that handle the applicants per week or month, depending on how enthusiastic this idea may be. I wont explain how members are selected but that also depends if people are willing to do such work, we can add prices or whatever. However I would suggest that each member, if possible be able to test OR help test applicants. Apprentice - I am not sure what council do with them so I cant answer that question . As for getting new recruits I suggest have a small group of members join random shadow mission parties and show how our guild is the best! or something like that.

I'll update if they say anything else.

[Cyril0321]

Thank you Allen, I brought that to the front!